Bank of America -- Keep LandSafe or Balboa ??

Flash in the pan Joined: 01 Dec 2007 Posts: 37

Do you think that Bank of America will spin off Countrywide's LandSafe or Balboa Insurance subsidiaries? Now that we're in lawyer/regulator heaven might that those folks say, "Uh, no way. Conflicts of interest?"

Always bothered me that Countrywide had the keys to every part of the mortgage origination and securitization business and was arrogant about it to boot.

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:43 am

lifes2short wrote:

Do you think that Bank of America will spin off Countrywide's LandSafe or Balboa Insurance subsidiaries? Now that we're in lawyer/regulator heaven might that those folks say, "Uh, no way. Conflicts of interest?"

Always bothered me that Countrywide had the keys to every part of the mortgage origination and securitization business and was arrogant about it to boot.

that would be a prudent move. will help them to come in with a clean image. But then again, Prudent is whats missing today & got us to where we are!!!!!!!

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:36 am

That is very interesting.

Can we look into that further?

Let's take the collective knowledge of this community and take a closer look at not IF there are conflicts, but WHAT the conflicts are!

Start naming the corp. entities.

Let's track them down and warn the employees before they come up with 6-month plans to... well... you know.

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:18 am

Captive appraisal subsidiaries will be a liability that BAC will gladly shed. They are not interested in doing anything but getting regulators off that trail and cashing out if need be with some token fines from any past "abuses" that may lurk in the closet.

What was that one called again..... Landscrape?

Flash in the pan Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Posts: 75

Landcrap was nothing more then a profit center for CW,,They charged the borrower a large fee and paid the local number hitter 175-195+/-....

The appraisal they got were c**p performed by inexperienced appraisers..

I urge anyone with a CW loan to have their file reviewed for Fraud...

Flash in the pan Joined: 01 Dec 2007 Posts: 37

I wonder when Cuomo will start looking at LandSafe in the same way he dug into FirstAmerican and WaMu. That relationship was a little more distant than the CW/LandSafe one.

Dyn-o-mite! Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 366

bigrock wrote:

Landcrap was nothing more then a profit center for CW,,They charged the borrower a large fee and paid the local number hitter 175-195+/-....

The appraisal they got were c**p performed by inexperienced appraisers..

I urge anyone with a CW loan to have their file reviewed for Fraud...

Not really accurate. Landsafe always appraised for less, not necessarily because of inexperienced appraisers (though that sometimes was the case) but because every landsafe appraisal would be reviewed.

If 2 of your appraisals were reviewed and lowered, you no longer received business from Landsafe. Hence, landsafe appraisers were always 5-8% less than anyone else. And even if you had did an appraisal outside of landsafe, it would have to pass through LARAS, which inevitably gave you a value of what a landsafe appraiser would have done.

I think in this aspect they were doing the exact opposite of what most people bash them for (fraud, inflation), it insured a secure value and didn't bump loans up to where people would be over/under in their home -- that was the job of everyone else at some point. Yea it killed many deals, but like I always tell people "Let's say you had to flee the country, your home is only worth what someone will come and give you cash for it today."

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:48 pm

par41 wrote:

bigrock wrote:

Landcrap was nothing more then a profit center for CW,,They charged the borrower a large fee and paid the local number hitter 175-195+/-....

The appraisal they got were c**p performed by inexperienced appraisers..

I urge anyone with a CW loan to have their file reviewed for Fraud...

Not really accurate. Landsafe always appraised for less, not necessarily because of inexperienced appraisers (though that sometimes was the case) but because every landsafe appraisal would be reviewed.

If 2 of your appraisals were reviewed and lowered, you no longer received business from Landsafe. Hence, landsafe appraisers were always 5-8% less than anyone else. And even if you had did an appraisal outside of landsafe, it would have to pass through LARAS, which inevitably gave you a value of what a landsafe appraiser would have done.

I think in this aspect they were doing the exact opposite of what most people bash them for (fraud, inflation), it insured a secure value and didn't bump loans up to where people would be over/under in their home -- that was the job of everyone else at some point. Yea it killed many deals, but like I always tell people "Let's say you had to flea the country, your home is only worth what someone will come and give you cash for it today."

I never really had this experience you are describing. Mr. Magoo always did a fine job in the review of all appraisals I ever had associated with CountryWide.

I didn't work with any exterminators with the capacity to "flea the country" either so I will not address proper valuation methods according to USPAP which never included a firesale valuation of cash sale today. In fact I have never seen a comp sale grid on any report showing one day on market for all comparable sales. Of course your results may vary according to geographic location and the presence of irrational exhuberance and fraudulent characters around you.

Landscrape is sold or buried, either way whoever survives this industry will benefit by it's demise.

Dyn-o-mite! Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 366

MktMaven wrote:

par41 wrote:

bigrock wrote:

Landcrap was nothing more then a profit center for CW,,They charged the borrower a large fee and paid the local number hitter 175-195+/-....

The appraisal they got were c**p performed by inexperienced appraisers..

I urge anyone with a CW loan to have their file reviewed for Fraud...

Not really accurate. Landsafe always appraised for less, not necessarily because of inexperienced appraisers (though that sometimes was the case) but because every landsafe appraisal would be reviewed.

If 2 of your appraisals were reviewed and lowered, you no longer received business from Landsafe. Hence, landsafe appraisers were always 5-8% less than anyone else. And even if you had did an appraisal outside of landsafe, it would have to pass through LARAS, which inevitably gave you a value of what a landsafe appraiser would have done.

I think in this aspect they were doing the exact opposite of what most people bash them for (fraud, inflation), it insured a secure value and didn't bump loans up to where people would be over/under in their home -- that was the job of everyone else at some point. Yea it killed many deals, but like I always tell people "Let's say you had to flea the country, your home is only worth what someone will come and give you cash for it today."

I never really had this experience you are describing. Mr. Magoo always did a fine job in the review of all appraisals I ever had associated with CountryWide.

I didn't work with any exterminators with the capacity to "flea the country" either so I will not address proper valuation methods according to USPAP which never included a firesale valuation of cash sale today. In fact I have never seen a comp sale grid on any report showing one day on market for all comparable sales. Of course your results may vary according to geographic location and the presence of irrational exhuberance and fraudulent characters around you.

Landscrape is sold or buried, either way whoever survives this industry will benefit by it's demise.

If you never had a value slashed by Landsafe, you have to be one of the few or didn't do lots of loans through CW. Having worked there, it happened on about 35-40% of the deals.

And I have corrected the flea scenario. Point wasn't that they included fire sales or things like that, it's just a way I managed to explain low landsafe appraisals. Just because you think you're home is worth X doesn't mean it will sell for it. And I have seen appraisals with fire sales on it, someone with a home free and clear and just looking to get out -- how you haven't seen that in one of the worst declining markets (MI) is beyond me.

Now while you haven't worked with any exterminators, it appears you haven't worked with any comedians either.

Have a good weekend.

Dyn-o-mite! Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 279

MktMaven wrote:

par41 wrote:

bigrock wrote:

Landcrap was nothing more then a profit center for CW,,They charged the borrower a large fee and paid the local number hitter 175-195+/-....

The appraisal they got were c**p performed by inexperienced appraisers..

I urge anyone with a CW loan to have their file reviewed for Fraud...

Not really accurate. Landsafe always appraised for less, not necessarily because of inexperienced appraisers (though that sometimes was the case) but because every landsafe appraisal would be reviewed.

If 2 of your appraisals were reviewed and lowered, you no longer received business from Landsafe. Hence, landsafe appraisers were always 5-8% less than anyone else. And even if you had did an appraisal outside of landsafe, it would have to pass through LARAS, which inevitably gave you a value of what a landsafe appraiser would have done.

I think in this aspect they were doing the exact opposite of what most people bash them for (fraud, inflation), it insured a secure value and didn't bump loans up to where people would be over/under in their home -- that was the job of everyone else at some point. Yea it killed many deals, but like I always tell people "Let's say you had to flea the country, your home is only worth what someone will come and give you cash for it today."

I never really had this experience you are describing. Mr. Magoo always did a fine job in the review of all appraisals I ever had associated with CountryWide.

I didn't work with any exterminators with the capacity to "flea the country" either so I will not address proper valuation methods according to USPAP which never included a firesale valuation of cash sale today. In fact I have never seen a comp sale grid on any report showing one day on market for all comparable sales. Of course your results may vary according to geographic location and the presence of irrational exhuberance and fraudulent characters around you.

Landscrape is sold or buried, either way whoever survives this industry will benefit by it's demise.

another bitter LO hoping people get laid off?...Are you buitter at landsafe because they didn't push your deals? Funny whenever someone says an appraiser is low its because they kill your deal. did you ever think the higher appraiser was just pushing numebers and was the inexperienced appraiser.. Regarding landsafe - How Cw utilizes its subsidiaries (landsafe) is exactly what Wells Fargo, Citi, and Chase presently do. They only difference is that they have the business relationship as a joint venture with First American, read all of their websites. Landsafe was started by CW, not as a joint venture. Wake up to regulation!!. Its per the OTS and in the future all you LO that treat appraisers/golfing buddies like dirt will have to live with this business profile. Yes, LOs will have to start ordering appraisers on approved appraiser lists from investors and these lists are going to be harder to get on and once your off for fraud or pushing values your off for a year. The days of working for a big bank and having your appraiser do 100% of all of your loans is over. That was the reason for the WaMU/eappraiseit problems/lawsuit. Collusion. The LO at WAMU needed someone to make their deals and wanted to expand the eappraiseit appraiser list for all of there croonies to push values. Why did eappraiseit appraisers not make as many deals (lower pull thur read the lawsuit by the AG) than LSI? Its because WAMU LOs were able to dictate which LSI appraiser was going to be used or got them on the list. Also, BOA has there own staff appraisers Now. Go to there website there hiring appraisers! BOA will absorb the profitable landsafe into the lending business!. just my 2 cents based on the facts of lending.