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the great prognosticator
Cherry Bomb


Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 175

Re: Just Asking
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

UsedToBe wrote:

And sorry GreatP - it just doesn't work to absolve yourself of blame by saying if Wall St hadn't made it available then it wouldn't have happened. Wall St made the drugs available, but there would have been no market if it hadn't been for the origination community's addiction. Frankly, that's an appalling lack of personal responsibility.


I would agree with you except for a couple of things. First if there were no "drugs" then no one would take them. Second in an industry where pay is driven by commission and bonuses for production and very little regulation, greed/underhandness prevails. Many LO's were not getting rich they were getting by and doing anything they could to make a paycheck even if that meant questionable things. I left LO and became a UW many many years ago because sales is shady. I thought as an UW i would be able to prevent some of the shady things only to find out the management at the banks did not care as long as they hit their numbers. the problem with commission and bonuses is that you eliminate the disinterested 3rd party. I worked at a bank one time that paid bonuses to the UW's based on closings not underwrites. well if everyone is deriving income bases on a loan closing then you have a problem.
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buyerbeware
Schumpeter Reincarnate


Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 3326
Location: minneapolis

Re: Just Asking
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:57 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Brokers didn't design securities architecture. Everyone should have been more skeptical, but it wouldn't have made a difference. Someone else would have stepped up to fill the void.

We all got played, for the most part.

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UsedToBe
Dud?


Joined: 06 May 2011
Posts: 11

Re: Just Asking
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

My apologies for not communicating clearly.

Yes this subject has been hammered on endlessly. Despite that, many on this forum continue the diatribe against the evils done by the big lenders (BofA, et. al - justifiably, I agree) yet conveniently ignores the evil done by themselves and their colleagues.

So drop ALL the invective, work together to clean up ALL sides of our industry. Help with the efforts to clean up production and, as I said before, make it noble and respected once again.
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buyerbeware
Schumpeter Reincarnate


Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 3326
Location: minneapolis

Re: Just Asking
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

UsedToBe wrote:
My apologies for not communicating clearly.

Yes this subject has been hammered on endlessly. Despite that, many on this forum continue the diatribe against the evils done by the big lenders (BofA, et. al - justifiably, I agree) yet conveniently ignores the evil done by themselves and their colleagues.

So drop ALL the invective, work together to clean up ALL sides of our industry. Help with the efforts to clean up production and, as I said before, make it noble and respected once again.


The industry, such as it was, won't get another chance for another generation or two.....and maybe that is for the best.

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"My ambition: to strangle the last king with the entrails of the last priest"

Voltaire
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KBB
Cherry Bomb


Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 163
Location: Illinois

Re: Just Asking
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:57 am Reply with quoteBack to top

the great prognosticator wrote:
KBB wrote:
I have been saying all along that it was not just the originator but included processors, closers, borrower, etc. My personal irritation is with the underwriter who was 'forced' to approve a loan. That's taking the easy way out and added fuel to the fire for where we are today. It's really an embarassment to this industry that there were very few who were confident and professional to accept their individual accountability but would rather blame Wall Street, their managers or any other lame excuse.


First of all there were plenty of UW's forced to sign loans they did not want to. I saw it everyday. Our area manager was promoted from sales (like most managers in the mortgage industry). He only cared about the sales numbers. I refused to sign files i did not like but i could get away with it because i was contract UW and worked for the MI companies. Most full time bank UW's signed or saw their jobs taken away. Blaming wall street is because all the NINA's, SISA's, SIVA's would not been available to do if wall street did not lie about the risk to investors. How short our memory is SISA'S and NINA's only came about in the late 90's before that there were only full doc loans LIKE TODAY. Because today no one on wall street will invest in the SISA'S and NINA's because of the risk. Wall Street lied and the banks/LO's/Brokers took advantage. i have been in the industry over 20 years just so you know i am not talking out my butt.


I've been in this industry over 20 years as well - always as a staff UW, never contract. Any contract UW who refused to do anything was conveniently reassigned unless they were truly talented and their abilities outweighed their refusals. So I'm a bit skeptical with what you could get away with unless you were gifted professionally. As a staff UW, did I get push back - yes. I had two occasions of blatent retaliation. Push me and I'll push back twice as hard. But nobody forces me to do anything. There were some banks who didn't offer these types of programs because they were smart enough to see the profits were only short-term. Choices were made. Unfortunately, there are those who are not professional enough to admit that the choices they made were their own and refuse to accept the accountability of their actions.

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MakingIt
Nitroglycerin


Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 629

Re: Just Asking
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 2:18 am Reply with quoteBack to top

KBB wrote:
the great prognosticator wrote:
KBB wrote:
I have been saying all along that it was not just the originator but included processors, closers, borrower, etc. My personal irritation is with the underwriter who was 'forced' to approve a loan. That's taking the easy way out and added fuel to the fire for where we are today. It's really an embarassment to this industry that there were very few who were confident and professional to accept their individual accountability but would rather blame Wall Street, their managers or any other lame excuse.


First of all there were plenty of UW's forced to sign loans they did not want to. I saw it everyday. Our area manager was promoted from sales (like most managers in the mortgage industry). He only cared about the sales numbers. I refused to sign files i did not like but i could get away with it because i was contract UW and worked for the MI companies. Most full time bank UW's signed or saw their jobs taken away. Blaming wall street is because all the NINA's, SISA's, SIVA's would not been available to do if wall street did not lie about the risk to investors. How short our memory is SISA'S and NINA's only came about in the late 90's before that there were only full doc loans LIKE TODAY. Because today no one on wall street will invest in the SISA'S and NINA's because of the risk. Wall Street lied and the banks/LO's/Brokers took advantage. i have been in the industry over 20 years just so you know i am not talking out my butt.


I've been in this industry over 20 years as well - always as a staff UW, never contract. Any contract UW who refused to do anything was conveniently reassigned unless they were truly talented and their abilities outweighed their refusals. So I'm a bit skeptical with what you could get away with unless you were gifted professionally. As a staff UW, did I get push back - yes. I had two occasions of blatent retaliation. Push me and I'll push back twice as hard. But nobody forces me to do anything. There were some banks who didn't offer these types of programs because they were smart enough to see the profits were only short-term. Choices were made. Unfortunately, there are those who are not professional enough to admit that the choices they made were their own and refuse to accept the accountability of their actions.


Name a bank that didn't do SISA, SIVA, or NINA, etc.

I am holding a flyer right now from the one who says they "never did stated".

Hmm, Non Conforming -- 90%/90% "VOA" up to $ 500K with 680 score.
Not to mention the Conforming Stated and the Lehman/Aurora products they sold.
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