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UsedToBe
Dud?


Joined: 06 May 2011
Posts: 11

Re: Just Asking
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 2:34 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Snets wrote:
I'm not even sure I buy this 70% number - I mean in my area Wamu and Countrywide were doing thousands of option arms when it was rockin and rollin


don't entirely disagree. That was the "official" NAMB number, or something around that.
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UsedToBe
Dud?


Joined: 06 May 2011
Posts: 11

Re: Just Asking
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 2:36 am Reply with quoteBack to top

KBB wrote:
I have been saying all along that it was not just the originator but included processors, closers, borrower, etc. My personal irritation is with the underwriter who was 'forced' to approve a loan. That's taking the easy way out and added fuel to the fire for where we are today. It's really an embarassment to this industry that there were very few who were confident and professional to accept their individual accountability but would rather blame Wall Street, their managers or any other lame excuse.


Good for you! I couldn't agree more. Although I can say I believe it stemmed from a continuous pressure from employers for more and more production.
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UsedToBe
Dud?


Joined: 06 May 2011
Posts: 11

Re: Just Asking
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 2:39 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Snets wrote:

However I would suggest that most of the scam artists are gone now...


I'd say this article puts a lie to your comment. (btw, I agreed with you.)

http://blogs.forbes.com/morgan.....age-fraud/
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KBB
Cherry Bomb


Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 163
Location: Illinois

Re: Just Asking
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 2:52 am Reply with quoteBack to top

UsedToBe wrote:
KBB wrote:
I have been saying all along that it was not just the originator but included processors, closers, borrower, etc. My personal irritation is with the underwriter who was 'forced' to approve a loan. That's taking the easy way out and added fuel to the fire for where we are today. It's really an embarassment to this industry that there were very few who were confident and professional to accept their individual accountability but would rather blame Wall Street, their managers or any other lame excuse.


Good for you! I couldn't agree more. Although I can say I believe it stemmed from a continuous pressure from employers for more and more production.


I agree with you to a point. However, therein lies the problem. Too many were short-sighted in that they only looked at month-end. Professionals look at month-end and long-term. By looking at long-term, one realizes there will be ups and downs. Only looking at short-term equates to, "what's in it for me." And here we are today.

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UsedToBe
Dud?


Joined: 06 May 2011
Posts: 11

Re: Just Asking
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 3:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

KBB wrote:

I agree with you to a point. However, therein lies the problem. Too many were short-sighted in that they only looked at month-end. Professionals look at month-end and long-term. By looking at long-term, one realizes there will be ups and downs. Only looking at short-term equates to, "what's in it for me." And here we are today.


Spot on.
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Snets
Nitroglycerin


Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 875
Location: Palm Beach County

Re: Just Asking
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:56 am Reply with quoteBack to top

If you read the article it talks about historical frauds coming to light - fraud today - you would have to be some kind of genius - I suppose its possible but pretty freaking hard and why would you - you're absolutely going to get caught at some point - and there won't be any slap on the wrists anymore.
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UsedToBe
Dud?


Joined: 06 May 2011
Posts: 11

Re: Just Asking
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 3:46 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I find it interesting - and telling - that out of more than 600 views at this point, only 3 people have posted a comment. Perhaps I'm too cynical, but it seems like this is an issue few on this forum are wiling to admit to and certainly unwiling to address. Easy enough to point the blame everywhere else but at yourself and your own kind.

Snets, you commented before about not doing option arms and only a handful of subprime deals. How many others on this forum can say the same? Let's face it, when you boil it down - even without considering all the fraud - all those "toxic" loans were originated by a loan officer/originator somewhere.

And sorry GreatP - it just doesn't work to absolve yourself of blame by saying if Wall St hadn't made it available then it wouldn't have happened. Wall St made the drugs available, but there would have been no market if it hadn't been for the origination community's addiction. Frankly, that's an appalling lack of personal responsibility.

To go back to my OP: they rant and rave about the evil empire lenders and investors, while they themselves (as a group) pocketed a good deal of cash originating the very loans they rail against.

I say, if you truly care about the industry, then heal thyself. Be just as willing to clean up your own side of the business before you call for the necks of others who you believe are also guilty.

Instead, the broker community fights and bitches about any legislation that might impede their income or their actions, all the wihile calling for criminal charges against the very hands that fed them mega-bucks for years. And I sure as he!! don't hear any of them offering to repay their commission to borrowers they helped put into financial crises.

There's a technical term for that: hypocrites.

I think I'll go back into hibernation now.

Snets, thanks for the honesty and the feedback.

Steve H.
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Rotag
Wrecking crew


Joined: 01 Nov 2007
Posts: 1722

Re: Just Asking
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 5:08 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

UsedToBe wrote:
I find it interesting - and telling - that out of more than 600 views at this point, only 3 people have posted a comment. Perhaps I'm too cynical, but it seems like this is an issue few on this forum are wiling to admit to and certainly unwiling to address. Easy enough to point the blame everywhere else but at yourself and your own kind.

Steve H.


This topic has been beaten to death. Maybe, just maybe that might be a reason.

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Agent Smith: You hear that Mr. Anderson?... That is the sound of inevitability
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IndyMtgBroker
Dud?


Joined: 22 Apr 2010
Posts: 4

Re: Just Asking
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 5:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I have worked for the "Cream of the c**p" mortgage brokers and I have learned how NOT to do things. I also worked for a production builder in the Indianapolis area years ago who had their own mortgage company. That had to be the worst job ever! Yes, it was good money, but most of the people buying homes did not deserve to leave the trailer park. Sorry for being so honest, but over half the loans I closed were not good deals. We had a lot of pressure from the Builder to get the deals done. I had one loan application appointment where the lady told me the reason why they filed bankruptcy was because she didn't feel like paying her bills (her husband said "oh yeah, she went crazy that year for Christmas"). We were also told NOT to show fully accessed property taxes on the 1003 by the Sales Office. We were only told to "explain" fully accessed property taxes.

There is a lot of blame to go around for the Mortgage crisis. Whether it be, Mortgage Brokers, LO's, appraisers, title companies, the government or lenders: everyone is to blame!

With all the changes happening, some good and some not so good, for those of us who are battling the changes, we are doing it because we love the business. If you don't like the changes, then get out!
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the great prognosticator
Cherry Bomb


Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 175

Re: Just Asking
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

KBB wrote:
I have been saying all along that it was not just the originator but included processors, closers, borrower, etc. My personal irritation is with the underwriter who was 'forced' to approve a loan. That's taking the easy way out and added fuel to the fire for where we are today. It's really an embarassment to this industry that there were very few who were confident and professional to accept their individual accountability but would rather blame Wall Street, their managers or any other lame excuse.


First of all there were plenty of UW's forced to sign loans they did not want to. I saw it everyday. Our area manager was promoted from sales (like most managers in the mortgage industry). He only cared about the sales numbers. I refused to sign files i did not like but i could get away with it because i was contract UW and worked for the MI companies. Most full time bank UW's signed or saw their jobs taken away. Blaming wall street is because all the NINA's, SISA's, SIVA's would not been available to do if wall street did not lie about the risk to investors. How short our memory is SISA'S and NINA's only came about in the late 90's before that there were only full doc loans LIKE TODAY. Because today no one on wall street will invest in the SISA'S and NINA's because of the risk. Wall Street lied and the banks/LO's/Brokers took advantage. i have been in the industry over 20 years just so you know i am not talking out my butt.
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